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The Philosophy of Tori Discuss Tori's views on religion, spirituality, sonic shapes, etc.

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Old 05-28-10, 08:02 PM   #311
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butterfly Re: Tori...CULT?!?!! WTF?

See that is something that could not happen here in the States. There's a big debate here right now because Texas has passed curriculum requirements, (each state has it's own state board of education and there's a lot of differences in public school from state to state, although there are some standard federal guidelines as well) and Texas' curriculum choices are very loaded with politically incorrect assertions and they are minimizing the influence of great men like Jefferson in favor of Calvin and other religious leaders, minimizing the civil rights movement, and basically rewriting history for political gain. Texas is the largest market for textbooks so it effects the rest of the country. But our schools could never get away with having a Scripture class etc...some teachers are very careful and minimalistic in classes like history, World history, even electives like mythology or folkstudies to keep it descriptive and narrative and not bring any critical thinking into the discussion. Which just translates into a sub par education at best.

A lot of high schools have prayer days where students can pray at the school before school hours, scripture like the Ten Commandments etc are not displayed. But then there's the debate over Christmas breaks...is that an endorsement of a religion? Sure I think so sometimes, even though hanukkah and ramadan and a few others fall within that same time frame, our kids get the mass consumer market version of Christmas in the schools....elementary schools are decorated with predominately xmas themes. Also our history is where we try to keep our children thinking in protestant and political terms...what side of politics are where people debate and argue. Any Native American (or mexican or immigrant descendant or African American) in our country can tell you how the truth of what happened and continues to happen to minorities is drastically understated. We create heroes, Christopher Columbus, George Washington, etc and leave out and sometimes blatantly lie to our kids about the reality of some of these figures. We talk about government and presidents and leave out millions of stories of our people. We also demonize the people who may be the real heroes, John Brown at Harpers Ferry for instance.

Sometimes it's extreme our religious persons wanting kids to be taught we are a Christian nation, and the people who adhere to separation of church and state wanting to wipe all trace of religious or ethical or moral talk out of schools. This plays out in our science and sex ed classes as well. There's no compromise or middle ground, and the fighting can get intense.

Well this is why I get testy when I hear talk about how horrible education is in the States by our own leaders ...because as a homeschooler and knowing that like all great American inventions, modern homeschooling is native to our country and people and being exported to many other countries, knowing that there are expats fighting in Germany for instance for homeschooling rights as well as other places and knowing from numerous studies that it works, and works better than any PS system and knowing that millions in our country are educating their children in this fashion...and not only for religious reasons. Like everything the Christian homeschoolers have co-opted something that was secular in it's formation. We are still sort of ostracized and persecuted in many unseen ways by local politics. But it works...and everytime I hear that we are failing as a country, I think "right, in the system...but look at all these millions of homeschooing families, look at how this method has translated and been exported overseas...how about some credit instead of continued attempts to absorb us into your failing system."

But now I ramble....education being so close to the daily atmosphere of my family!!!
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Old 05-28-10, 10:07 PM   #312
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Default Re: Tori...CULT?!?!! WTF?

Ha, well you'd probably be shocked to learn that most religious schools here actually receive government funding. Which is another contentious debate, one side arguing that the parents if children who attend these schools pay taxes like everyone else, part of which should go into the education of their own children irrespective of where they choose to send them to be educated. The other side, of course argues that these school should NOT receive funding, particularly when most charge such high fees & are well equipped, whilst many public schools do not have even very basic facilities. Which further drives the move from Public to Private schools, particularly for High School education.
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Old 05-29-10, 11:08 AM   #313
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butterfly Re: Tori...CULT?!?!! WTF?

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Originally Posted by Blue Mermaid View Post
Ha, well you'd probably be shocked to learn that most religious schools here actually receive government funding. Which is another contentious debate, one side arguing that the parents if children who attend these schools pay taxes like everyone else, part of which should go into the education of their own children irrespective of where they choose to send them to be educated. The other side, of course argues that these school should NOT receive funding, particularly when most charge such high fees & are well equipped, whilst many public schools do not have even very basic facilities. Which further drives the move from Public to Private schools, particularly for High School education.

public schools don't receive fed monies...but at least here in Illinois we have a tax debate going as well. We have ridiculous property tax rates in this state, and we also have a state that has a very hands off policy towards homeschoolers, which is good, and bad. Bad in that they are always trying to get more from us...school superentendents attempt to get us to sign an "assurance form" to "keep the truant officers at bay" but neither of those things have any basis in law. Our state school code does not ask that we sign anything nor are truancy officers allowed by law to investigate homeschoolers, who are not enrolled in school to begin with. The assurance form actually puts homeschoolers on a list of possible enrollees and gets the state more money. They ask this of even "preschoolers" when state compulsory law only affects 7 -17 year olds.When you take into consideration how high our property taxes are, and that the majority go to the schools, and that in Illinois schools are not required to let homeschoolers participate in extracurricular activities etc, then it amounts to the state taking our money for education and then denying our children access to what we just paid for. Where in many other states, homeschoolers are allowed part time classes and sports participation, band or art etc....there's a lot more openness in some states.

It's an ongoing battle to get the state to respect the law and our freedoms without overstepping their bounds in both.

It's the same with the private religious school in our community...they are private but very much still in the school districts pocket.

I believe that if someone is paying a tax for something, then they should have full unrestricted access to what they just paid for. I believe in homeschooling and I want the local kids who do go to school to have a good education...but it makes me cringe when i fork over more than a thousand dollers in two installments every summer, and none of it is going to benefit my childrens education. Sure we have a tax break, we can write off our school "supplies" but get this...only up to 500$ and only on consumable products...basically workbooks. Computer, books, science kits and supplies, etc etc etc....nope. Who spends up to 500$ on workbooks??? The tax law actually says if it becomes the "personal possesion" of the student than its not applicable. It will also cover "tuition"? um...we're homeschoolers!! Sure some use long distance courses etc...but it really still amounts to a big backlash against a form of education in this country that really honestly works, and works well!!

(But from what you say...it does sound like religion plays a big role in Australian politics as well in some cases.)
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Old 01-10-12, 05:05 AM   #314
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Default Re: Tori...CULT?!?!! WTF?

Have you guys seen this? It's hideous, but come to think of it, it's really tragic that someone actually means it.

http://theater.goodfight.org/?vdId=Tori_Amos
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Old 01-10-12, 05:09 AM   #315
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Default Re: Tori...CULT?!?!! WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel View Post
Have you guys seen this? It's hideous, but come to think of it, it's really tragic that someone actually means it.

http://theater.goodfight.org/?vdId=Tori_Amos
Ohhhh, yes. There's a good portion of this thread dedicated to those nutjobs!
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Old 01-10-12, 05:19 AM   #316
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Default Re: Tori...CULT?!?!! WTF?

I still want to have one of those freaks in my room and play Icicle and Father Lucifer for them. And watch them collapse.
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Old 01-24-12, 02:28 AM   #317
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Default Re: Tori...CULT?!?!! WTF?

Tori CULT????? Ahem, I think only cult-biased people can even think of that
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Old 03-11-12, 05:19 PM   #318
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Default Re: Tori...CULT?!?!! WTF?

I was thinking about this post while falling asleep on this gorgeous day - I'm a napper I thought - since the 60s (or that era) musicians and artists stepped into the role of the modern day shaman to a certain extent, which is a spiritual tradition that could be very threatening to some religious communities. And a tradition that was consciously oppressed in an attempt to limit the experience of the spiritual to a specific class of people.

Tori's community is not a cult, true - but we do relate to her music spiritually - she reinforces or even challenges our beliefs in things beyond the relative world, right? I think all these things are why the community surrounding Tori's music could be seen as threatening and therefor fodder for exaggerations and out and out lies.
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Old 06-29-12, 10:39 PM   #319
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Default Re: Tori...CULT?!?!! WTF?

What's funny in a weird good way, is I'm a Follower of Christ The Way and all that jazz...And Tori really has helped me to get closer to God go figure? She is witty, honest, talented and I absolutely love playing her songs on my Greg Bennett guitar In my opinion listening to her has helped me to make the faith I have my own, not anyone else's or on the coat tails of xzy person. There isn't any such thing...

When I think of Tori I think of 'Come let us reason together' to quote a verse in the KJV Old Testament, I also think of many other things and yes some of her songs I do play and sing I'll admit when I'm upset and you know what? It helps release the negative and I feel quiet at ease after...

I might be in the minority here as far as those that call themselves Christians and what not, I don't say it lightly because I like to live by 'Judge not least I be judged' and I've found more judgmental stances from people that are or claim to be Christians then from those that don't...Go figure that one out...
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