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On her new album Strange Little
Girls US singer Tori Amos covers famous songs of men about women. A
conversation about the war of sexes and men’s dominance - in rock’n’roll and
elsewhere. kulturSPIEGEL: Ms Amos, did you ever want to be a man? Tori
Amos: When I was younger,
yes. First Jimi Hendrix, then Jimmy Page. Both played guitar and for me they
were the absolute symbols of coolness. But then I got a guitar on my own. And
after that I never wanted to be somebody else again. kulturSPIEGEL: Is rock’n’roll a male art-form? Tori
Amos: That’s out of
question, isn’t it? It’s the man that dominates rock’n’roll. kulturSPIEGEL: For your new album “Strange Little Girls”
you rerecorded 12 well known songs that men like Neil Young, Tom Waits or
Eminem wrote about women. Why? Tori
Amos: I wanted to find out
how men see women and how they think about their relationships with women. I
have tried to get into the characters of these women and to look at the lyrics
from their perspective. But get this right - I didn’t do it because I was
frustrated or angry. I don’t want to accuse anybody; that would be too simple.
It was the fascination that drove me. kulturSPIEGEL: How does one approach a fictional character?
Tori
Amos: I have thought a lot
about these women… Where do they come from? What do they like? What do they
think? In the end, the image of these women was very concrete. I could even
imagine how they look, and for the booklet I had myself photographed in those
different roles. kulturSPIEGEL: Do you sing the original lyrics? Tori
Amos: I just left out a few
words here and there. The originals do quite stand for themselves. kulturSPIEGEL: How did you choose the songs? Tori
Amos: I wanted songs that
tell you a story about women. And when I got a feeling for those women, then I
put myself on the tracks of this person. kulturSPIEGEL: Can a woman understand what men sing about
women? Tori
Amos: I had a male control
team that often had to tell me what some certain songs or lines meant to them. kulturSPIEGEL: You didn’t talk to women? Tori
Amos: I did but don’t
believe that there is anything like a female unity. The sentence that I heard
most often was, “Do you think so? I think you completely misunderstood this...”
Whatever. In the end I had songs that in a way represented modern myths. kulturSPIEGEL: Is there a chance you overestimated the
power of song lyrics? Tori
Amos: No. Words can always
hurt and they can heal. Their power is underestimated. I always hear, “Well,
they are just words, this all is probably not meant that way.” But words are
weapons. And men know that very well. But they rarely take the responsibility. kulturSPIEGEL: Which lyrics make you angry? Tori
Amos: I don’t like it when
somebody tries to make some fast money with rude or confrontational lyrics and
then says, “Hey, it wasn’t meant that way.” That’s very untruthful, it’s weak
and cheap and I really do have a problem with that. kulturSPIEGEL: Why did you choose the song “’97 Bonnie
& Clyde” by Eminem in which the storyteller drowns his wife, whom he has
just killed, in a lake? Tori
Amos: I didn’t do it at all
to please some journalists who’d like to condemn Eminem. The song impressed me
as a phenomenon. I found it more frightening than the lyrics themselves that
all over the world people dance to such words. kulturSPIEGEL: Your explanation? Tori
Amos: I have often heard men
saying, “Eminem is a freak but he’s funny - that bitch really dragged the shit
out of him, small wonder that he freaks out over that.” kulturSPIEGEL: And that’s typical of men? Tori
Amos: That’s not what I just
said. Actually some male musicians didn’t want to play on the track. I just
said, “Boys, no problem, calm down, I’ll call you again when we’re doing Neil
Young.” kulturSPIEGEL: And why did you have to record this song
then? Tori
Amos: It’s a good example of
how violence is tolerated in families. My father, a priest, just took part in a
conference in which a UNO-report was presented. And this report says that every
minute a woman is abused. That’s terrible. What I was interested in in the
Eminem song was the figure of this abused woman. What kind of person was she?
Who were her girlfriends? How did she feel? kulturSPIEGEL: Was it painful to take over those
characters? Tori
Amos: In the case of Eminem
it was, yes. But when I searched for all these figures I found out a lot about
myself as well. kulturSPIEGEL: Is there a war between men and women? Tori
Amos: I see it more as a big
ping-pong game between the sexes. But get this straight, you can play ping-pong
very brutally. You could also consider the relationships between men and women
as a chess game in which single figures always take new positions and meanings.
And that’s what women have to deal with these days - again and again they have
to question certain positions of power. If there is anything that holds this
record together it’s those many constellations of power. Only in Hollywood it
always stays the same. There is a law that makes old boys like Sean Connery
shag young women like Catherine Zeta-Jones. But nobody wants to see a young guy
like Billy Crudup having sex with Meryl Streep. kulturSPIEGEL: But all that Hollywood does is produce
fairy-tales... Tori
Amos: ...that terribly many
people take as the real life. Men are only sure about themselves when they have
power - may it be as the man that feeds the family and brings the money home.
Only very few men can stand living with a woman who forces her career. I have
seen many relationships breaking up because the woman had more success than the
man. kulturSPIEGEL: Do you think there has been a backlash
recently? Young rock and hip-hop groups present themselves in sexist video
clips, the porn industry is booming. Tori
Amos: Of course it does. But
to be honest, good pornography and erotica don’t bother me at all. kulturSPIEGEL: What is good pornography? Tori
Amos: When I find some
sensitivity and passion in there. It’s a sign of the times that brutality gets
more and more popular in this genre. But to glorify rape - isn’t that horrible?
You should have an empty stomach when you watch this shit. I know what I’m
talking about. kulturSPIEGEL: But people have always found delight in
those stranger things. Isn’t it just today’s media that makes things more
transparent? Tori
Amos: I do believe that the
urge for hard pornography has risen in recent years. Brutality is just another
product that’s en vogue at the moment. And the wider public consumes it like a
very normal thing, like your daily dinner. kulturSPIEGEL: But the hard times have also brought hard
women to the front. A global entertainer like Madonna with seemingly
unrestricted power and endless self-esteem couldn’t be imagined 20 years ago. Tori
Amos: No, I don’t believe
that as well. But there have always been exceptional women, but nothing really
has changed. Did you know that radio stations in the US do almost only play
music by men? Generally women are on the black list there. kulturSPIEGEL: Excuse us but that sounds a bit like a
suspicion theory. Tori
Amos: I can easily give you
the names of some radio editors who will confirm this. kulturSPIEGEL: But why should radio stations do that? Tori
Amos: Because women are to
be kept out of that male rock’n’roll business. That’s why. Madonna as the
leader of pop music is fine, but what is going on with boycotts and
discrimination further down is incredible. kulturSPIEGEL: Has your career suffered from this? Tori
Amos: I can’t complain. I’ve
been doing this for such a long time that I have a very faithful fan base. I am
fine because I’m independent from radio and other media. kulturSPIEGEL: Will some of the characters you have
discovered in those songs by strangers live on in your own songs? Tori Amos: I have discovered these women but I don’t control them. I’m really curious myself if they will resurface on my next records. www.yessaid.com |