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Record Collector Tea
with the Waitress Tori
Amos talks about music, magic and the shadow-side with James Blandford Tori Amos has traveled a long way since she first crept into the public
consciousness with the compellingly disarming Little Earthquakes album
back in 1992. She’s traveled even further since her days as a self-confessed
rock-chick with the 1988 outfit Y Kant Tori Read, but one thing that certainly
hasn’t changed is her unaffected eclecticism and talent, as well as a genuine
open-mindedness that has prevented her becoming just another soon-forgotten
curiosity. This outlook is reflected as potently as ever on her latest album, To
Venus and Back, a double-CD which couples eleven new tracks with a
scorching seventy-five minute live set from her ‘98 Plugged Tour - the first
time Tori has toured with a full band. Inititially conceived of as an album of B-Sides and rarities, the new CD
came about when Tori was besieged by ideas for new songs almost as soon as she
entered the studio. This means we may have to wait a while longer for that
desperately anticipated B-sides collection, though the resulting set is even
more of a gift for fans and collectors. Eleven new tracks see Tori exploring her shadow-side with the help of
industrial noise and tape loops in an extension of the direction taken with From
the Choirgirl Hotel, underscored as ever by her formidable piano playing.
The first single, “Glory of the 80s”, is a captivatingly uplifting wash of
vocals and instrumentalisation populated with an ever-changing cast of unusual
characters, while tracks such as “Suede” and “Juarez” seem like excavations of
the darkest cerebral attic-rooms. Even with the unlikely inclusion of a
rambling and powerful paean to “Datura”, the hallucinogenic plant; and the
achingly sad “1000 Oceans”, the album unfolds like an absorbingly symbolic
novel, yielding more with each subsequent listening. The accompanying live disc is a generous addition - thirteen tracks opening
with an extended “Precious Things” which segues into a superbly drum-laden
version of “Cruel”. “Bells for Her” is treated to a broodingly Gothic
reworking, while “Girl” - hard to find even on a live bootleg - could almost be
the definitive version. “Space Dog” and “Cloud On My Tongue” also stand out,
while an unusual take on “The Waitress” finds Tori in fine shape-shifting
fettle. The disc should - as Tori no doubt hopes - render the plethora of
Plugged tour bootlegs obsolete. In an attempt to find the girl behind these darkness-tinged daydreams, we
met up with Tori at the One Aldwych Hotel one hot summer day, finding her to be
intelligent, articulate and eager to debate any number of topics. Meet Tori
Amos... TORI AMOS INTERVIEW I recently came across a bootleg CD which claimed to include tracks taped
during the 1980 “Baltimore” sessions, as well as a set you apparently performed
at a wedding. How much material did you actually record in those early days? I’d have to hear it to know if it really was the
“Baltimore” sessions. I did a song called “Baltimore”, I did one called
“Walking With You”, and then I did a couple of other things around that period
that were seperate from that session. They were done in a church. Michael, my
brother, was there - he’s almost ten years older than I am - and I was about
14. Those were called, “All I Have To Give”, “More Than Just A Friend”, there
was a song called “Just Ellen” and I can’t remember the other one. I can hear
it. The point is that I recorded a lot of things at that time. The “Baltimore
Sessions” CD, I don’t know if that’s a tape that I did that day, or if it’s an
amalgamation of things done around that time. The thing I did at a wedding was
something completely different - I was just being paid ten bucks to sing. The
big requests then were “Evergreen”, “We’ve Only Just Begun”, “The Wedding
Song”, you know. I did “Baltimore” in a studio, you know and I did the wedding
things at a real wedding that somebody taped, probably with a terrible little
tape recorder, and not just because of me, just taping the service. So it
could’ve been a few years apart. Your next foray into recorded work was a number of demos you put down with
dance producer Michael ‘Narada’ Walden in 1983 - what do you remember about
those sessions and what were the songs you actually ended up recording ? I went there to record songs I had produced in
my own home studio with my own little drum machine and synth and piano. I’d
been sending Narada tons and tons of demos, and he has them now - he could be
quite cheeky and release them, but I’m hoping he doesn’t. Anyway, because what
was going on at the time in music had changed from that female
singer/songwriter thing, to the British invasion - which had just happened -
his choices about what I should record changed. I was going to record a few things,
including a song called “Married Men” and one called “British Invasion”, but
what we finally ended up doing was pushing it into an entirely different
direction. Later on he ended up doing Sister Sledge, so , if you can imagine
somewhere in between Sister Sledge and Boy George ! The voice was speeded up to
make it sound younger. This was just around the time when Madonna was emerging,
her early years. The songs we recorded were, “Skirts on Fire”, “Predator”, “Rub
Down”, “Score”, and I can’t remember anything else... You sound embarrassed... Well, if you asked me when did I start chasing
it, it would have to have been then. As soon as the words “rub me, baby” came
out of my mouth...it’s just not as cute as when Mike Myers does it - it doesn’t
have the same effect. But that was when I officially became an audio-whore -
1983. You changed direction completely for “Y Kant Tori Read”. That was a strange time, because the New Wave
scene was turning into the LA rock scene, so it was a really transitional time
for making records. I wasn’t as militant as I became after “Y Kant Tori Read”
failed. But Joe Chicarelli taught me a lot of things - he had produced Pat
Benetar and done a lot of groovy records, Oingo Boingo and stuff - a lot of
simple fundamentals that you apply when you’re in a producer situation. And
that was a gift. Like, never do a take with the band right after they’ve eaten;
don’t do punch-ins because the tempo’s going to slow down; or, if you’re doing
a substance, stick with that substance ‘til you’ve done the overdubs! So how would you assess the album in retrospect ? Well, say something like, “oh please, I’m sure
you’ve run out of newspaper and your dog needs something to cuddle up with”. It’s not that bad - “Cool On Your Island” and “Floating City” are actually
very good. Fair enough. I think that when I dissed the
whole thing, it’s not fair to the people that put in their time and there are
moments that work in every work, usually. If it comes from someone who has a
catalogue, there’s usually something in their early work that can’t completely
be mutilated. And there are moments that I think were right for the time on “Y
Kant Tori Read”. I think “Cool On Your Island” had moments that were right for
1987, which was when I recorded it. Did you enjoy the 80s as a whole? I wouldn’t want to go back there, except the
Ecstasy was much better. I’ve moved into the red wine of it all now, because I
can’t deal with the rat poison side of it. And , as you get older, you do have
to think about death, which isn’t such an intangible thing. Yes it is! It’s always tangible, surely? When I was 19 it was intangible, it wasn’t even
possible. There is a trade-off though - if you get through it, and you can stay
awake for it all. But isn’t there a frustrating yet eternal desire to be fulfilled that is
ultimately pointless? I mean, if you get run down by a bus tomorrow, would you
feel fulfilled? I don’t know of anybody who’s gonna be fulfilled
if they get hit by a bus. You have to surrender to that eternal need to be
fulfilled. That’s very much what “Liquid Diamonds” was for me, which might be
on the live album. I’m fighting for that to get on, because the live album
isn’t about the “well-known” songs, it’s about a show, a performance, that has
integrity and works as a piece. Not “God”, “Cornflake”, “Silent”, “Sneeze”,
“Widow” and “Spark”. I would never put those back-to-back in a show. So how did you select the tracks for inclusion on Venus and Back - Live?
We did over 120 gigs last year, and I listened
to every one of them and we ranked them and rated them in a play-off. We were
doing the FA Cup. For me it was Wimbledon, for the guys it was the FA Cup, or
Formula One. So, when we were playing them off against each other, it was like,
I know “Crucify” wants to be on the record, but guess what - maybe this tour’ll
get her and she’ll be on the DVD. But I don’t have her yet, I don’t have it,
and I’m lying to myself and the musicians for whatever reason. I mean, we had
OKs, but it just sounded like the Top 40 band playing “Crucify” down at the
Sheraton. There’s a song on the new album called “Datura”, which is a hallucinogen -
do you experiment with drugs for your art? I think spliff has a very important place, but
you see I’m not an addictive personality. I’m Moon in Libra. Moon is the
emotional phase, so I’m always looking for balance. There’s a strong element of mysticism in your work and the way you speak -
are you involved in the occult? I have a lot of love for witchy stuff. I do have
a lot of friends, especially in New York - you know that whole North-East thing
going on - that are very involved in Wicca. But I’m just a woman who believes
in a lot of mythologies. There’s a lot of truth in what a lot of my
witch-friends talk about, and I hold them to be truths. I’d be a Dionysian
waitress - that’s my scene. I am into all of that, and I have a lot of time for
Jesus, but I think he probably was turned out by Mary Magdalene, and I think
from the things I’ve read it seems as though she was more akin to a High Priestess
in the Isis tradition. So, if we go into that side of it, I believe that there
are a lot of things that have been hushed up and hijacked by the big three -
Judaism, Christianity and Islam. And I don’t want to talk about the Buddhists,
because I don’t know enough about them to talk about them. I just know that
anybody who had the little women, wrapping their feet and breaking their feet,
they should eat the toe-jam from that. Literally. I think everyone has a shadow, and the pagan
side really believes in the shadow, but it gets so convoluted and mixed up in
the Satanic thing, when - as we know - a lot of people conjure at the dark side
of the moon, which is what I talk about in “Suede”. I do a bit of my own
conjuring, but not to take somebody’s power away. It’s to not take somebody’s
power away. A lot of people ignore that shadow side - it’s interesting to me that
“Waitress” on “Under The Pink” expresses that duality of human emotion so
potently. See, this is why you can include this, because
“Waitress” is on the live record and I want to be a waitress for the Dionysian
cult - I only hang out with the illegal fairies. When people were asking my
about that whole fairy thing, it was because I believe in the spirit side. I
think music comes through dimensions, you don’t create on your own. It’s
arrogant to thing you can create music on your own, there’s a co-creation going
on - I don’t know with whom, sometimes, but there is this well that we all tap
into... How would you say you have developed artistically over the course of your
last five albums? Well, I think I’m working a lot more with what
all the buttons do, like when I said to the engineers, “OK, there are all these
buttons, so do they do stuff?” And they both turned around and looked at me and
said, “endless amounts of stuff”. And you can drown in it. Literally. So, I
love the danger there, being in a control room, knowing that without leaving
the building you can drown - your songs can mutate and become these other
things. The possibilities are endless, there’s so much technology that you have
to make choices and reel yourself in. Sometimes I’ll experiment with something,
and that’s really just to know what it does, and once you know, you can decide
how you want to bring it into that moment, and that’s a whole different thing.
Sometimes improvising with sounds can be very distracting or you sit there and
go, “that isn’t the character, that isn’t who the girl is”, and , sometimes,
it’s the bass - what is the character? And the instruments start to take on a
characterisation. I’m much more involved in the production than on Little
Earthquakes. So, the piano becomes the mistress, and the synths become the
wife for a while, and then the piano gets a bit jealous or it can be a
menage-a-trois and she’ll just sit back and watch it all happen. It’s about not
being chained to it, but not rejecting it either. The piano itself lets itself
become a part of you, as opposed to having to prove that it exists. I’ve spoken to people who have largely ignored your past work simply because
you’ve tended to work with the piano. How would you react to that? Sometimes, for young guys, hardcore is not about
quiet - they can’t find the blade within the sweetness. You can understand when
people just don’t like acoustic instruments, but I found some of the pretty
exciting rhythmic guys in the electronic world - and I said electronic, not
electronica - go to the acoustic world because that’s their shadow. And the
electric side was my shadow, but for some people it’s the quiet, it’s the
flower dress that’s the darkness. And it does fascinate me when some of the
hardcore guys really get that. I studied guitar players as a piano player,
because that’s how you go to another form to grow in your own world. That
doesn’t mean that I didn’t appreciate Elton and what he could do. I understand
that, but you do sometimes have to go to your opposite ‘sonically’. Hardcore
for me is about uniqueness, and you have the balls to be who you are, and who
you are might not look like a tongue that’s been pierced three times, it might
be Little-Pink-Lip-Gloss sat there, but it’s about the depth. A lot of your past work centered around Christian archetypes - something you
seem to be leaving behind. You can circle the drain after a while, if
you’re not careful, as a writer, and I think I addressed the things I wanted to
about it. So, in “Bliss” instead of “Father who art in heaven”, it’s “Father I
killed my monkey”, so there are moments when it becomes more about the
intimacy, whether I’m singing that about my father or about God the Father. I’ve always been amazed by your father’s astounding open-mindedness -
despite being a Christian minister, he found you jobs playing the piano in gay
bars and married your mother, who I believe is part-Cherokee and has psychic
visions... Funny you say this, because I think that’s a
deserved kudos to him. I think that now, looking back, even though he could be
very Billy Graham there for a while, especially many years ago, he’s got his
doctorate in theology from Boston, and as the years have gone on, he’s become
much more able to talk about Mary Magdalene, not just Mary the Virgin, or Mary
the Divine Mother. I don’t believe in Mary the Virgin - I do believe that
that’s what they needed to do, to take her sexuality away. I believe in her,
but I don’t believe that she was a virgin who had a child. It’s not a dirty
thing to bust your cherry. Do you know the word ‘virgin’ originally from the
Latin, does not exactly mean ‘no sex’ - it’s a different word, it was brought to
the sexual. When you talk about the pagan or religious side of it, some of the
scholars that I have read believe that Mary, the Mother, was a Virgin priestess
who had a wedding to the Godhead, who was represented by a male from a
different sect, and that he was killed so the blood was given to the land, so
there wouldn’t have been a male there. So, she would have got pregnant by the
sperm, by seed, and my argument to everybody is, is she any less pure if she
weren’t a virgin? She isn’t necessarily any less pure, but there can by purity in both states.
Sex can often be as damaging as it is liberating. Of course it can, and I’m with you, and it gets
stolen and taken. And yet, I think that the idea that his woman could be
zapped, that in the Christian religion, you know, it’s dickless, it has no
penis, because then a penis didn’t create Jesus, that really takes a lot away
from you guys. I think whatever people’s spiritual beliefs are, the whole
sexuality/spirituality issue, that is my passion. Marrying the two Marys, the
Magdalene and the Mother. The Mother Mary’s sexuality was stripped from her in
the myth, and Mary Magdelane’s wisdom and spirituality were stripped from her,
and so we’re divided into these two Marys in the Western Christian world. And
it has really been my passion to unite the two Marys, inside my own mind,
inside my own heart, inside my own pussy. Many of your fans were divided over the Boys for Pele remixes such as
“Professional Widow” and “In the Springtime of his Voodoo”. How involved are
you in these re-workings? I don’t get involved too much in it. Obviously
the masters don’t go out without my permission, but I think that if you’re
going to have variations on a theme that you have to let it roll. And sometimes
you think that somebody does a mix that makes you chuckle, and sometimes you
don’t. So, there you go. You recorded a duet with Michael Stipe, “It Might Hurt A Bit”, for the Don
Juan de Marco soundtrack - it’s never seen the light of day, so do you have any
plans to release it? It’s in the vaults. I don’t know. I mean, I have
to find out where the masters are to be honest. It got real sticky at that
time. I know you’re looking at me going, “you don’t know where the master is?”
but off the top of my head, I don’t. Because we were doing it for a film it got
out of control. I haven’t talked to Michael about it in a while. It’s funny,
the last time I saw him, we didn’t talk about it, it’s not something we bring
up. You’ve settled down in Cornwall - how has relocation to the UK affected your
outlook? Well, I’m not here all of the time, so I think
it keeps your objectivity. I do spend time in the States and I spend time in
Ireland when I’m not here, and I need that, because even though I have married
a Brit, I have my own roots, I have my own tastes. I don’t mean style. You
know, Heinz Ketchup. They’re just things that I need on a manna level, that
isn’t just here. There are reasons I like being here, I have friends here, but
I also have friends in the States. I think both outlets give you very different
perspectives. And on a final note, how does marriage suit you? Put it this way - it’s never boring. THE LADY CAME
FROM BALTIMORE... “I want to be a legend” (Tori Amos,
Washington Post, December 1980) In 1980, seventeen year-old Myra Ellen Amos responded to a Baltimore contest
to compose a theme song for the city. She had already built up an impressive CV
of local performances, and with the help of her brother Michael, the young Tori
wrote a song called, unsurprisingly, “Baltimore.” Composed in honour of the city’s baseball team, the Baltimore Orioles, the
song is a cheesy-listening blend of unashamed patrionism and Carpenters-style
arrangements which pays homage to the life in Baltimore. The lyrics paint an
almost ludicrously appreciative view of the city, and Tori is evidently still
finding her vocal style. However, for a girl of her age, the cut shows obvious
promise while the production is surprisingly slick. Prompted by his daughter’s evident talent, Dr. Edison Amos had a small
quantity of 7” singles pressed on his own MEA label - the initials of both Tori
and her mother - and gave out a tiny number to family and close friends. The
remaining discs were never distributed and are now closely guarded by her
father, although a couple must have slipped to Baltimore city authorities as,
later that year, Tori was awarded a Citation from the Mayor for the “splendid
quality of public service you have rendered”. The flipside, “Walking With You”, is a pleasant love-song which is more than
reminiscent of some of Kate Bush’s early demos; and Tori’s use of
multi-tracking, while dated, is effective. The “Wedding Performance” bootleg CD
- the cheapest way for a collector to enjoy the “Baltimore” cuts - includes a
track gleaned from the same recording sessions, “Happy Day,” which sounds as
though it was dubbed from an acetate. Perhaps the cut was briefly considered
for the “Baltimore” flipside, only to be rejected in favour of “Walking With
You”. When we first looked at Tori’s rarities, back in RC 176, we have the
“Baltimore” single a conservative estimate value of 100 pounds. However,
interest in Miss Amos has grown to such an extent that if a copy was to
surface, it could now easily fetch around 1,000 pounds - perhaps even more at
auction. Start saving now, Toriphiles... |